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Poster: fenario80 Date: Oct 25, 2010 6:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

That's cool, I will check it out, and if you can think of any later ones with a lot of midi, I would love to know about them. Thanks!

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Poster: tim_oz Date: Oct 25, 2010 7:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

I believe the 3/22/90 version mentioned in The Best of the Grateful Dead Project list is a nice example of the 90s MIDI explorations. This is a tight, fluid, and joyous version, although personally I'm not sure it reaches the face-melting peaks of other versions.

I probably need to give them another listen, but I've never been overly enamored with 9/2/78 or 10/14/94. Talking about 10/14/94, I was first discovering the Dead around this time, and was reading a lot of posts at the rec.music.gdead newsgroup. I recall when the 10/14/94 show occurred and the flurry of activity on the newsgroup with the setlist coming up, then people's reviews and comments to the effect that
this was THE Scarlet>Fire.

As for myself, I'm very partial to some of the classics like
5/8/77, which is exquisite, with improvisation that almost appears to be composed; 2/5/78 also works for me - lots of
jamming, and Jerry is clearly out there.

A sentimental favourite of mine is 9/13/93. While I had heard some of the albums, the 2nd set of this show was the very first Dead tape I listened to in the first batch of tapes I received. There was something magical about hearing the buoyant chords as Scarlet began that drew me in, and I'm still here. I wouldn't call this an all time version however it is interesting for Jerry's 93 acoustic style tone, which doesn't seem very popular. Personally I like his use of this tone here in Scarlet, which seems to give it a light and lilting feel that matches the bouncy, joyful playing. The transition is relatively short but well-played, then the Fire also plays out nicely, if not a totally incendiary version.

This post was modified by tim_oz on 2010-10-26 02:17:14

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 25, 2010 8:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

>was reading a lot of posts at the rec.music.gdead newsgroup. I recall when the 10/14/94 show occurred and the flurry of activity on the newsgroup with the setlist coming up,

Wow. I barely even knew there was an internet then. You were a heck of an early adapter. Seems like DHs as a whole were, too. Not counting me, LOL.

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Poster: tim_oz Date: Oct 25, 2010 9:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires


Early adapter sounds good, although I think it was more a case of having access to it - I started university in 1994 and they had net access, which I dove straight into. Sometime after we got access at home, but I can't recall which year that was (another Deadhead trait heh)

It is interesting to consider how Dead culture has disseminated through the internet, and how Deadheads have certainly jumped on any new technology (the shift from tapes to digital, recording equipment etc.) It's also interesting that the band are the same - from the beginning they have explored various technological avenues in the pursuit of their muse.

This post was modified by tim_oz on 2010-10-26 04:28:04

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 25, 2010 10:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

>It's also interesting that the band are the same - from the beginning they have explored various technological avenues in the pursuit of their muse.

Which is kinda funny, given how I think of them as having such a natural sound, even raw (in a good way), and how that's a lot of what I value about the band. But definitely true, when you learn more about what they were doing musically/technologically. Sometimes with good results, sometimes not so good. The later-years midi stuff mostly sounds rather soulless to me, and dated in a way that older stuff doesn't, oddly. Maybe that's cuz they were struggling with the sound in general at that point, so the tech stuff ends up sounding to me like musical Clearasil Cover-up Cream. Whereas earlier, the tech experimentation seemed more integrated. Just IMO, from someone with very non-techie ears!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Oct 26, 2010 8:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

"... so the tech stuff ends up sounding to me like musical Clearasil Cover-up Cream.'
A potential classic line .
C'mon AR , it isn't atrocious all the time .
Right ?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 26, 2010 9:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

Oh, I'm sure it's not. And that's more of a general impression, anyway, cuz I haven't listened to a lot of 90s. When I do and it jumps out at me, though, it doesn't tend to be in a good way ... but having non-techie ears, I may not notice half the time. That's probably when it works :-)

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Oct 26, 2010 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires - to Midi or not

"... so the tech stuff ends up sounding to me like musical Clearasil Cover-up Cream."

AR, what a great description of that midi-music-malady - you often have an interesting turn of a phrase in your posts. When listening to shows, and I hear that Midi, that damn midi, enter the musical spectrum, I usually skip around to another tune, or more often, reach for an early 70's show to sooth my violated ears.

Like any new toy or addictive object, it can be misused and overused/abused. Don't get me wrong, I love electronic music, and technical toys in music (i.e. Bill Frisell, the master at looping is one of my musical gods). And midi - when used well - can be an amazing tool. Midi was/is a fantastic invention, but all too often, it is used so poorly that it detracts from it's purpose. Jerry was such an inventive, creative guitarist that when i hear him switch over, it almost always comes off, to me, as a cop out. If you want a flute in Bird Song, bring in someone like Charles Lloyd . . . Midi in the Dead always, to me, came off like switching to Decaf after years of rich espresso or Turkish style . . . why???

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Oct 25, 2010 7:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

no , no no please don't listen to that .... Sorry ;-)
I tried to delete , but alas too late .

This is one I would rec.,

http://www.archive.org/details/gd91-08-16.sbd.17011.sbeok.flac

The first three . The transition from Victim to Fire is a must .

edit - The PITB reprise , beginning at 4:50 in Space , is worth it .



This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-10-26 02:46:05

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Poster: Edsel Date: Oct 25, 2010 7:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

I like the way this one goes...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1979-02-10.set2.sbd.miller.97352.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 25, 2010 8:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

I don't know. Keith playing a rolling piano across the melody, instead of an organ in sync with the melody is more my cup of tea. Keith sounds like a zombie on this.

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 25, 2010 7:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires

The only Victim I ever liked was a week and a half ago when I heard John Kadlecik play it acoustic in front of about 150 of us. It has no business in the middle of a Scarlet/Fire.

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Poster: BataviaSparky Date: Oct 25, 2010 8:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires (Victim!)

The acoustic version here on you tube makes me love this tune even more (we talkin' Victim's here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xgD2AljtYI

Why is there so much dislike on here for later-era Dead? I frigging LOVE "Victim Or The Crime" from the first time I ever heard it played- at Deer Creek (I believe it may have been the first time played)

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Oct 25, 2010 11:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires (Victim!)

Count me as one of those late 40's who actually likes Victim AND Picasso Moon, for the same reason the band did: it made them play something crunchy and weird and difficult. I don't hear them all that much, because I mostly listen to earlier shows, and because those songs didn't always (often?) succeed live, but what's a heaven for?

Any recommendations for versions of either of those?

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Poster: Crystal Evans Date: Oct 26, 2010 4:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires (Victim!)

I am a newbie here and just wanna say Hi to everyone. I am Crystal from Louisiana, US.
__________________
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Poster: Jim F Date: Oct 26, 2010 2:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: favorite Scarlet-Fires (Victim!)

I don't really like later era GD at all-there are exceptions but I rarely go out of the 70's-and I love Victim or the Crime. For me the moment the song clicked was at a Ratdog show, 3/22/02. Wasserman scared the hell out of me that night, he was so good. I dunno if that show is on the archive, if it is, def check it out. Victim opens the second set with just Bob, Rob, and Jay. It's really really cool. Great show all around (especially the jam that opens the show), except for interrupting Dark Star with Tanquerey. I loved the LEGEND Johnnie Johnson but sometimes his constant presence at St. Louis Ratdog shows didn't quite click.

Anyway point is not only do I not care much for the way the Dead sounded in that era, but I also don't care for much of any of the "new" material of the 80's and especially 90's. But I'm a Victim fan for life. I remember some years back I was pushing for a local GD tribute band I used to bum around with to start playing it. One night I arrived late to their weekly Tuesday show that I was at every week, they were a few songs into the first set. When they saw me walk in they said "Jim's here, let's do it now!" I didn't know what to think or what they were going to do to me, then they started Victim. I'd never been so happy to hear a later era GD song in my life. Well actually I used to get pretty excited when they'd do Little Light, too, which is odd as I'm not a Brent guy. It was Phil and Friends that REALLY sold me on Little Light, Warren used to just kill that song.

Oh, yeah, Scarlet>Fire. I dunno, I don't really listen to that tandem much these days. I always thought 5/17/77 was a really underrated version, along with 4/11/78. There are better versions, of course, but thought I'd mention some more "obscure" versions.